Jeremy Heersink (from Poolside by CGT) and Tony Jordan (from Renolit) join the show to introduce a fourth category of pool type: the Reinforced PVC Membrane. They will be teaching C3291 in Atlantic City for four hours, for a hands-on introduction workshop to the material and how it is installed.
[00:00] - Preface - Education Vacation Recap
[03:10] - Actual Introduction
[09:13] - New WU Class - C3291: Reinforced PVC Membrane Workshop
[14:35] - PVC membranes in cold climates
[16:33] - Installation and costs
[30:46] - Closing
177. Reinforced PVC Membranes (w/ Tony Jordan and Jeremy Heersink)
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[00:00:00] Preface - Education Vacation Recap
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Eric Knight: What you're about to listen to is episode 177 of the Rule Your Pool podcast, and it was actually recorded about two weeks ago. I'm recording this little intro right now. After the education vacation we just had in Phoenix with Watershape university. If you had a chance to be there, I hope you felt the energy the same way that we all did.
An event like that has never actually been done before. And certainly from the vendors that I was speaking with, it was different and it was innovative and I'm very proud to say that I have an amazing team and amazing group of support, not just from vendors and instructors, which we do have, but the students.
You showed up. And it was awesome. We sold out the event. In fact, we oversold the event. Uh, and it's a true testament to my team at Watershape University that the biggest problem that students saw was we were short six books in the construction school because we oversold it. And so we had to order those on Rush. That was expensive. But you know, if that's the biggest problem, I'll take it. You know, because there's so many moving pieces in an event with 200 some people there.
We had some amazing vendors, we had some amazing instructors. Too many people to thank at the moment. We'll probably do an entire episode recapping what happened there.
And I do want to thank my team. There's too many people to name, but in particular the three that really poured themselves into this were Michelle Kavanaugh, Marjorie Tolentino and Julie Kazdin, poured themselves into this event in particular. We have a bigger team than this. We do a lot of other things, but for this event in particular, I cannot thank them enough and I want them to hear this. You're awesome. You really made this event happen, so thank you so much.
And to our sponsors who came out, many of whom came back and told me one-on-one that they've never been to an event like that. They've never been invited to be students. Just imagine like a tabletop event where you've probably seen plenty of those before. But instead of it being a show that you have to be in sales mode all the time, we didn't really want that. We didn't encourage that. We said, alright, vendors, you're students. Come here and meet all of our students, which are great potential customers for you, but be students. Learn something you don't know. If you know your product line, that's great, but learn something that you don't know. We've got some of the best and brightest teachers. True masters at what they do, and the response was amazing and we are so humbled.
I am humbled by God's grace on this. And for the patience that people had and the trust in Watershape. So I just wanted to say that before you listen to this episode that I'm about to edit right now, actually. I didn't want to recap this, you know, after Christmas when it just happened in Phoenix. We've been getting a lot of questions of, you know, what are we doing next? When's the next one?
I don't know when the next one is, but the answer is there will be another one. It exceeded my expectations. It was amazing. And I know that we're onto something here. We're onto something. So anyway, I just wanted to thank everybody who was there.
I did lose my voice. But it was an incredible experience, and yeah, just humbled by all of you. So without further ado, episode 177 when my voice is not lost. Enjoy it. Thanks.
[00:03:10] Actual Introduction
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Eric Knight: Hello everybody and welcome back to The Rule Your Pool podcast. I am your host Eric Knight, failing up since I've been in this industry in 2012. And today I've got a wonderful group of people that are going to be teaching one of our classes in the Northeast Show in January. Specifically 8:00 AM to 12:00 PM on Tuesday, January 27th, which is a pre-conference class. I think it overlaps with the first day of the expo in Atlantic City for the NESPA Show, are honored to have these guys here because they've never taught a class with us before. But more importantly, guests today come from two competing companies that are working together to create a class for you. And it's an unbiased way of getting a new product category into the market, which you have probably never actually heard of if you're in the residential pool space.
Now I've heard of it before. Because I was a competitive swimmer and I've swam in commercial pools. This is a new product category. It's a new surface type, different from plaster. Different from your traditional vinyl liner that you're used to, and different from fiberglass. It is a reinforced PVC membrane. And they need to be installed on site.
And we're going to talk a little bit about this four hour workshop that is going to be available in the Atlantic City Show. And so today I've got from Renolit, Tony Jordan, and from CGT, or Poolside by CGT, Jeremy Heersink.
Guys, thank you so much for being on the show.
Jeremy Heersink: thank you for having us. Eric,
Eric Knight: Talking over each other. So what I'm going to have to do is I'm going to identify one of you at a time to try to keep this so that I can edit it appropriately.
So guys, thank you for being on the show. And Jeremy, I'm going to start with you. You reached out shortly after I came to Watershape University and you had this idea. How did you reach out to us, and what were you trying to do?
Jeremy Heersink: so it would've been back, uh, I think it was probably May, June, earlier this year. I reached out to Watershapes. It was actually from speaking to Renolit. We came up with the idea. We were trying to figure out how we could better educate the marketplace in North America specifically. So, uh, we thought Watershape would be a really good opportunity to do that. So when we reached out, um, the thought was, okay, how can we, how can we do something here?
So you, uh, you approached back and you, you thought originally I was speaking to vinyl liners specifically. because that's something else that we manufacture. But when we got to talking, we realized, I think you were certainly sold on the idea that we could create some education behind our, our reinforced PVC membrane systems.
A system that, you know, along with Renolit, we, we've been doing for quite some time, but it hasn't really caught on in North America. So we thought this would be a really good way to, to, uh, to educate the masses.
Eric Knight: Well, for sure. And just to let you know, Poolside by CGT. CGT stands for Canadian General Tower, and you are in Canada right now, correct?
Jeremy Heersink: We're, uh, I'm calling from Cambridge, Ontario, which is about, uh, an hour west of Toronto.
Eric Knight: Now Tony, your company is also, they have a base of operations in the United States, but it is also a foreign company. It's a European company, I believe, correct?
Tony Jordan: It's um, head office in Worms, Germany, 19 plants around the world.
Eric Knight: In Germany.
Tony Jordan: two in America.
Eric Knight: And you are joining us right now from?
Tony Jordan: Barcelona, Spain. uh, start day, one of the four day Piscina Barcelona. And it's exciting. It's just stunning to be here.
Eric Knight: It's an amazing show, I've heard. I've never been able to go to it, but what are your thoughts on it so far?
Tony Jordan: A lot of energy, a lot of money has been poured into the, construction of all the, vendors, exhibits, et cetera. But, um, very well attended. Just a remarkable show so far.
Eric Knight: Well, both of you have been to the Atlantic City Show several times before. I know Tony, you said you've only been there about 30 years. So how does this compare to the Atlantic City Show? Because in the United States, that's easily the biggest show that I'm aware of. The show we're going to be teaching at.
Tony Jordan: The Atlantic City trade show is extremely important, extremely big, and it is a show that is extremely exciting for everyone. The vendors, the dealers, the installers. It is a show where lots of business is done. And I love it. In Europe, same thing. Slightly different dynamic from a social standpoint. In Atlantic City, people are there to do business.
In Barcelona, people are here to do business and socialize. There is a, very much a social component to the Barcelona show. Everything from, from having a bar at the booth to serving food all day long. And music, it's, um, it does have that social side, whereas Atlantic City is extremely business associated, during the day and social in the evening.
Yeah
Eric Knight: Is that your take on it too, Jeremy?
Jeremy Heersink: what, I actually, I, I've never been to the show in Europe. My colleagues have. boss and his colleague are actually there right now. But all in all, I've, I've heard great things, uh, about the show and, and in Europe, uh, which is hosted at Barcelona and Leone periodically. but yeah, Atlantic City is. Is a fantastic show. As Tony mentioned, it's, it's always well attended. Um, we've done a couple of talks there, which have, have garnered quite a bit of interest. But yeah, CGT is a company. I've been there for about nine years. I've been going to the show for about four years. Um, but we've always attended. It's, it's always been a great show for us.
[00:09:13] New WU Class - C3291: Reinforced PVC Membrane Workshop
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Eric Knight: I've taught a lot of classes there when I was with Orenda, and when I started teaching Watershape classes, my first Watershape class actually was there. And I was shocked at the difference between a multiple hour class, like a full day or even a two day course compared to a typical seminar, which is an hour and a half to two hours-ish.
You'll get a lot of people in the seminars, which is great. But you can't really get up to speed on in-depth information. So this class that you're going to be offering through Watershape University in Atlantic City on January 27th, which is a Tuesday. That's going to be a four hour hands-on workshop introducing Reinforced PVC membranes. I think it's called the Reinforced Vinyl Membrane Workshop.
And the reason I called it the Vinyl Membrane workshop is because listeners, if you work with vinyl liner pools, you're probably going to want to take this class. This is the next level. This is a great way to offer something new for your customers.
It is a new category. It's not to be looked at the same way as vinyl liners. It's much thicker. And I think, uh, either of you, let's say, Jeremy, we'll go back to you first. A typical vinyl liner in a pool. I've heard it's 28 mils thick? Or is that correct?
Jeremy Heersink: There is a bit of a bit of a range, uh, similar to the the membrane side. So when you're talking about an in ground pool, not an above ground pool, you're looking at anywhere from 20 to, uh, sometimes even 30, a little bit higher than 30, but primarily 20 to about 28 is the, is the standard thickness, correct.
Eric Knight: And that's thousands of an inch, if I'm not mistaken.
Jeremy Heersink: Okay,
Eric Knight: Okay, so even on the international standard, they're using inches. I just want to, I just want to point that out that not everything is metric. So what is a reinforced PVC membrane's thickness, Tony?
Tony Jordan: for the most part, both commercial and residential material, a 60 mil or 60,000ths of an inch. It is composed of multiple layers, primarily a 30 mil PVC layer in the bottom, a reinforced fabric scrim, and then another 30 mil layer. All laminated or, or sandwiched together to provide a extremely strong, dimensionally stable product. And it's typically printed if it's residential. Typically plain if it is, for commercial.
Eric Knight: When I was swimming, a lot of the international pools have been using reinforced PVC membranes for a long time. We don't think of them as liners because they're on there so tight. It just feels plastic. There's a little bit of a cushion to it. It's really nice for swimming. Pure white. It's not plaster, it doesn't etch, it doesn't get rough. You can see some residue like on the black lines because they're clearly glued down. And you could go down there with your paddle and stuff and write your name if there was enough calcium deposits on or, or whatever else. But it was never a rough feeling. It was always smooth. It always felt pretty good to, to swim on.
And I did not know until Jeremy, until you reached out to me, I didn't know this was available in residential pools. And come to find out, apparently this is the majority of pools in Europe. So talk to me a little bit about what that marketplace is like, and why we think that this product category can start growing in the United States.
Jeremy Heersink: in Europe it's, certainly a much more mature market for this particular product system. It's been utilized for. You know, I, I'm going to say the 40 year mark. It's much more well known in the marketplace. And it's primarily through its history has been used for retrofits and renovations.
There are a lot of older concrete or, uh, tiled swimming pools that are in need of, of either re-tiling or resurfacing. And in the last, going to say, you know, 10, 15, 20 years, uh, a lot of these pools in the residential or commercial world are built for these reinforced PVC membrane systems just because of the additional knowledge in the marketplace.
Um, plus, Tony mentioned commercial versus residential. In the residential space, the designs and the complexity of the product have really come a long way. So that's why a lot of these pools are being built for these PVC membrane systems. So it has certainly caught on, um, the last few years here in North America, which is great to see once, I think for a lot of people they have to see it to really believe it.
And that's starting to become more prevalent, which is great to see. But, um, all in all. Yes, the, the European marketplace is much, much different. Especially in, in, uh, I'm going to say in Western Europe, I would say over 50% of pools are either built or retrofitted with these PVC membrane systems.
Eric Knight: 50%, so a majority? Tony, would you agree with those numbers or is it higher? Is it lower?
Tony Jordan: I would completely agree with what Jeremy is saying. And it varies by country. France, for example, France might be 80 to 90% reinforced PVC. Whereas Spain might be, uh, 40 to 50, heavy on the tiles, actual tiles. Gorgeous. And Germany and Italy might be around that 50-70% range, So it might average 50-60%. It's extremely strong and well known Europe.
[00:14:35] PVC membranes in cold climates
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Eric Knight: Well talk about the freeze thaw cycles. Because obviously Europe freezes, it snows every year. Now, I don't know about Spain, but I know that France and Germany and, and Northern Italy do. And they're far more north than anything in the United States if you look at the globe, so.
You said that this is a structurally sound system, which which is great, but there has to be some sort of thermal expansion elasticity to allow for heat and and contractions. Because I know on concrete, that's why you have expansion joints. That's why you do control joints. And I learned this in our Construction 2111 class. If you don't do that, concrete cracks. So there's got to be some give here because if they're putting it in as a majority of pools in Europe, it's clearly holding up to the weather demands. So, what would the similarities be with the weather in the Northeast, for instance, or the Midwest of the United States where it gets cold and snows every year? to you, Tony.
Tony Jordan: Absolutely. Very similar weather environments And its important to note that reinforced PVC membrane is made up of flexible PVC. The fabric reinforcement gives it its strength and its puncture resistance. So there is ice to impact upon that, it will not impact perhaps like other products. Maybe like a liner and some other materials. But it has enough flexibility there to give along with, again, because of that expansion of the ice, and the cold temperature. So there is some flexibility, but primarily it is dimensionally stable. Even though the. Um, tiles, the gunite, the, the, um, plaster underneath may crack and may give the reinforced membrane does stay intact, and it flexes with whatever that shell is.
[00:16:33] Installation and costs
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Eric Knight: Nice. So how is this put in Jeremy? It's not as simple as a prefabricated liner that was all measured out and all that stuff. Because it's way too thick for that. Nobody could lift it. It's way too heavy for that if it's three times the thickness, I'm presuming. So, you know, a typical, as you guys call it, a bag liner, which is what we are all familiar with in the United States, is a vinyl liner pool. This is installed differently. Walk me through a little bit about that and you know, what are we going to be covering in the class of, on that regard?
Jeremy Heersink: yeah, you're absolutely right. So it is, it is quite a bit different than a typical vinyl liner in the sense that it's welded in place, uh, in comparison to, to prefabricated at a fabrication shop. So it, there's definitely a little bit more labor involved with the installation process. But the nice part is, um, with how it's installed, it's, it's great for renovations, right?
So if you're dealing with an existing, um, substrate that's having issues and, and, and due for resurfacing, it's, it's with how it's installed, it's, it's very versatile for renovations. Um, which, which is great. So we've put some videos out there. Renolit has some great videos on the installation process. And the class does cover some of your basics as to the welding process, the heat welding process.
Eric Knight: I was just about to ask because it's not metal. So you're melting plastic together with special tools that will be hands-on demonstrated in the class.
Jeremy Heersink: Correct. So the main tool that's utilized is a heat welding gun. So, for those that are familiar with PVC Membrane Roofing, for example, it's a lot of the similar basics in the installation process.
Eric Knight: Okay. And now time-wise, it, it may be more labor. It's certainly more labor than a bag liner, as you call it, just a typical vinyl liner. But how does it compare to plastering a pool, for instance? Are we talking it's more than a day to install this thing, or is it a week? Is it a month? What are we looking at here, Tony?
Tony Jordan: An average pool, let's say it's 16x32, you will look at around three days, depending on steps, benches, sun ledges, and things like that. Approximately three days.
Eric Knight: Okay, so three days is not actually that much. I know plastering can be done in one day, but the prep process takes way more than one day. If you're chipping out an old plaster or hydro blasting it, packing in hydraulic cement around fittings. How do we address those things? So there's fittings, right? You got inlets in the walls, you've got a skimmer throat, you've got main drains. What's that process look like and how do we ensure that this is water tight?
Jeremy Heersink: Yeah, no, that's, that's a very, very good question. So what certainly needs to be considered are the fittings in general. So you really need to make sure you're using vinyl liner, vinyl membrane compatible fittings with, with your, your two gaskets. So a lot of times for renovations. In terms of prep work, what needs to be done are, are fitting replacements.
That's certainly a key item when it comes to the, the preparation work involved. yeah, that's, that's a common question that comes up and that's, I mean, there are instances where you can look at other alternatives, but the most bulletproof option is going to be full fitting replacement.
Eric Knight: And is that a big expense on a typical backyard pool or are we talking, it's kind of negligible, built into the cost? Let me rephrase this.. Our listeners, many of them are homeowners and they might be considering this because it's different and they want to have a European luxury option and they may not be able to afford. Well, certainly not an all tile pool. We just talked to Jimmy Reed in the last episode, who's going to be teaching our, uh, essential tile workshop. Those projects can go on for months. We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars to all tile a pool. Now there is a luxury section of the market that can withstand that. But for a typical renovation, it's going to usually be a retile replaster on a concrete pool, or you have to buff out and refinish a fiberglass pool and in a vinyl liner, typically it's just a replacement. And that replacement, I don't actually know how long that takes, but I've seen time lapse videos that make it look like it could be done in one day.
So I'm trying to compare where do we land here in all these different renovation options. Tony.
Tony Jordan: It would land, I would say, um, if you do not have to change over many of the fittings that Jeremy mentioned, if you're going from a vinyl liner to a reinforced PVC membrane, withWith minimal preparation. Maybe an hour or two. You could be looking at a three day start to finish. Literally three days start to finish.
Um preparation, there's preparation for everything, as we all know. The preparation could be one day. To take out a skimmer or to put in some of the other fittings that are PVC compatible might take one or two days. But certainly, um, there's no tiles that need to be removed. What we both train to do is put a felt over top of existing tiles if they are there, and then the membrane goes right over top of the felt. It's not simple, but when the train certified installer does it, they do make it look easy, because uh, that's what they do.
Eric Knight: Okay. Jeremy, do you want to add anything onto that?
Jeremy Heersink: No, no, I think, I think Tony nailed it. Um, yeah, it depends on age of the existing pool, right? It depends on what situation you're walking into. So there are instances where you're prepping your installation process takes a little bit longer, but, um, all in all, in comparison to, for example, a fully tiled pool, it could be a much improved option going with the membrane system versus, you know, chipping off all the existing tile and, and retiling. Perhaps there's waterproofing issues. So all in all, there are certain instances where, uh, this membrane system just makes so much sense.
Eric Knight: Now I'm presuming because it's so much denser, so much thicker, there is more work. There's going to be a price gap between replacing a typical vinyl liner with this. But it's probably in between that and replastering a pool or resurfacing a fiberglass pool and with a new gelcoat and whatever that process is. I don't even know, honestly.
In terms of renovation, homeowners expect? Not dollars wise, but where would they land as an option between the different categories of what is possible?
Tony Jordan: Depending on the shell? It could be steel based, it could be concrete based, it could be, even fiberglass. In the area of, mid to high end, plaster
Eric Knight: or
Tony Jordan: tile. Just below that.
Eric Knight: It sounds to me guys like this product because I'm, again, I'm familiar with it as a swimmer. I know what it feels like. But for most pool pros, they haven't felt this before. They haven't seen it. And so for them to offer this to homeowners, if they take this class in Atlantic City, they come here, they get their hands on it, they see how it's done. What is the process for your companies to train these potential applicators? Do you come to them? Do they come to you? What does that look like?
Jeremy Heersink: Yeah, so after the class, yeah, it's four hours really covers the basics of the product system. Jumps into the basics of installation process where it makes sense, where it doesn't make sense. From there, you know, after, after the education piece is covered, there would be an installation training process that needs to be done. So that's definitely one of the first steps. We, as a company, we only really work with trained, certified installing contractors.
Um,
Eric Knight: you have to. You have to.
Jeremy Heersink: to. It is. we certainly would not supply someone who hasn't been properly trained, by a reputable manufacturer. So that would typically be one of the first steps. Which is usually a few days.
It's usually a
Eric Knight: Oh, you froze. So it's usually a few days.
Jeremy Heersink: And there are, there are options as to where the training can be done. Um, you know, we have, uh, the opportunity to send the training outside of our facility or the facility itself. Which is here in Canada. But all in all, we try to provide options when it comes to installation training.
Eric Knight: And Tony, is that the same from your perspective with Renolit?
Tony Jordan: Essentially, yes. But as Jeremy said, it's a matter of interest level. It's important to know, I think for all the Watershape University listeners, we encourage you to come. Please come. Because even if you decide not to be trained and certified. You can choose the option of subbing out that work to a trained and certified installer. Or if you would like that skillset within your own company, that's fantastic. Then we will train anywhere between three to five days, as Jeremy said. In a class environment as well as onsite in a pool. So by the end of the five days we call our training an academy or a university, they are able to go out and install a fundamental membrane.
Eric Knight: Now from a water chemistry perspective, it's still vinyl. It's just reinforced. It's a lot thicker, it's a lot stronger. So I'm going to guess, but please correct me if I'm wrong, the same chemistry applies to a vinyl liner as it does to this, although this is just a lot denser version of vinyl. Is that a fair statement?
Jeremy Heersink: Yes. Yes, absolutely.
Eric Knight: Okay, so basically, with the chemistry research that we were doing at Orenda, in terms of starting it up, balancing the LSI, making sure that we're not over chlorinating, shocking every single week, loading up on cyanuric acid, getting the LSI low. The fading, the wrinkling, all those problems that happen on a typical vinyl liner. They may still happen here, but it would take a lot more abuse for them to show up. And I could tell you from the commercial pools that I've swam in, these things are robust. They are strong. And I wanted you on this show, not just because you're teaching this class, I wanted you on this show because our listeners probably don't even know this as an option. And it is a new product category. If we think of the types of pools that Service Pros actually work with and pool contractors who are building them, we think of concrete, vinyl, fiberglass.
This would be a fourth category. I would say it's concrete, vinyl, reinforced vinyl or reinforced PVC and then fiberglass. Would you agree with that categorization that it is like a fourth category?
Jeremy Heersink: Yes, yes, absolutely. It, it, it fits somewhere in between all of those. It's not a well-known concept specifically in North America. but it, it does fit the bill for, for a lot of different options. Right? I've mentioned it already for retrofits new builds. Plus the concept of, you know, we've seen examples of installers who install vinyl liners or maybe a combination of plaster pools as well. But they really like the idea of having something that can fit under a wide variety of scenarios, right? Whether it's a retrofit of any existing pool or, perhaps being more involved in the commercial segment as well. I think that's a, a big benefit with, to the system itself. Um, and we've seen examples Of installers who have, who have picked this up to get the chance to be involved in the commercial world to really provide more work for them. So that's always nice to see. And then we support where we can. But all in all, to answer your question, yes, it, it would certainly fit along those, those core, uh, those core options.
Eric Knight: Yeah, I was just going to say, it's a really nice thing for a pool building company and even a service company to make a referral as an option that is in many ways more affordable than some of the other options. But it's also, luxurious. It's European luxury. It's something that not a lot of people have.
So instead of having just a cookie cutter pool, this is a chance to take a pool and make it look different than all the other neighbors. And so I'm really grateful that you guys are going to be teaching this four hour class in Atlantic City. Again, that is Tuesday, January 27th. The course number, if you would like to register for this class, it's on the Pool and Spa Show website.
It's Watershape University Construction 3291. So that's C3291: Reinforced Vinyl Membrane Workshop. It'll be taught by you two guys, I believe, and one of your technicians who's going to be managing the heat welder and all that? And you're there for questions. And I believe you also have booths so people can come see you.
And I don't know booth numbers yet, but we can get that information out to our students too. Is there anything else, Tony, that you would like to add?
Tony Jordan: I would only add that a reinforced membrane is for commercial, big commercial, semi-commercial like hotels, motels, condominiums, health facilities, seniors homes, and then residential. So essentially commercial and residential. And again, both new and renovations. Is new residentially to North America, yes. But it's not new to North America commercial. Commercial wise, it's been around for about 36-38 years. And it's growing. That market is growing for all of the Watershape University. People who deal in commercial or small commercial, please come. All of you who are interested residentially, please come. This adds a whole new dimension and skillset to your organization. And even if you subcontract that out trained and certified installer, it's still part of your job, and you can still make your slice of the pie.
Eric Knight: Absolutely. Jeremy?
Jeremy Heersink: I think Tony nailed it. Between the two of us, we'll be the main presenters. So for those that that do come, please go easy on us. Um, we're, we're excited by the opportunity. We're excited to host via Watershapes. It's our first one. For those that I've mentioned it to, they are excited by the opportunity to come to the class. So, yeah, I, I think that's, that's my main message.
[00:30:46] Closing
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Eric Knight: Right on. Well, hey Jeremy, I want to personally thank you for reaching out when you did. I believe it was back in May. And this was not on my radar at all. I had no idea this was even available in residential pools. Again, I knew it from competing in these pools and swimming in Europe several times, and I love it. I actually really like the way it feels on the feet. But you know, that's a rectangular pool with 50 meter length and it's, it's just big. That's what I'm used to. But to see a freeform pool in the videos that you've shown me some of these amazing angles and these transitions from a bench. I was just talking to Jimmy Reed in the previous episode about those transitions are some of the hardest things to do well with tile. You know, these complicated, the bench comes down and it curves this way, and then it has a a 90 degree angle. How do you make that look right? Well, you all can do that too, which is amazing. because that's really hard to do with a vinyl liner and all the time it takes to measure that. And if you're off, oh boy, yeah, that's a lot of things that could go wrong with that.
So this is something that you can adapt in the field and heat weld on site. So I think it is a good option that people should be aware of. And by the way, it doesn't have to compete. Strictly, we are not just a concrete pool education group. I understand that most of our classes are based on concrete because that's who our faculty has been.
But we are expanding into this. We are expanding into fiberglass. We are expanding into other options because our role at Watershape is to help anybody in this industry attain mastery in whatever it is that they want to do. And I can see an entire category of people wanting to get an advantage and learn this, and help lead this new product category in the space. We do have the plaster school, we do have the tile school, and we're not going to stop that either. This is just another option that I think customers need to know about, and I'm so grateful that you reached out to make this happen. So thank you.
Jeremy Heersink: Absolutely. Thank you.
Eric Knight: And I would like to add one more thing. These two companies are international companies. They make most of the vinyl that goes into the brands that you already know. Now that those brands do their own thing, they have their prints, they, they fabricate them into the right shapes and all that stuff, but the vinyl itself comes from these companies, so they really know what they're talking about. And the fact that this is just a, uh, enhanced version of what you're used to is something that you should be aware of. Some of these come textured. They have different colors, they have different looks. It's an amazing product, and I hope that you'll give it a chance and attend that class. Again, that is Tuesday, January 27th in Atlantic City. Construction, 3291: Reinforced Vinyl Membrane Workshop.
Guys, thank you so much this has been episode 177 of the Rule Your Pool podcast. I want to thank Hasa and Orenda again for allowing my podcast to continue and I'm trying to introduce you to more things beyond pool chemistry. So just having Tony and Jeremy on here today is awesome, and we will continue having experts on this show. So thank you so much, and until next time, take it easy.